I thought it was serious. Because you were right. What she said was perverse, damaging, and blindingly ignorant. Common sense would dictate that you would also be a good pastor to a potential spouse and suggest she not marry him or go to someone else to conduct the ceremony if she chose to do so.
Would you have recommended him to one of your daughters? Thank you Doug for drawing a clear line in the sand. Andrews students with Christ Church families. Douglas, you are disgusting to blame the father and the daughter for what happened to her. I absolutely stand by these words. I would agree that boarding single males in families with young children is very unwise and a bad policy. Wilson is guilty for allowing it, but so is the father. Oh give me a break.
As a follower of Wilson, do you think the father had much in the way of choice? Given the propensity of Christ Church members to have lots of kids, with the encouragement of Douglas Wilson, it would have been hard for Wilson to find any home to place his … Read more ».
If what you say is true, that Wilson would have coerced the father if he had not opened his home to seminary students, then you are right. But believing that is to buy into the idea that Doug Wilson is running an authoritarian cult, which is hard for me to do based upon having read him for years and seeing the faithful presentation of orthodox Christianity and the gospel that he has consistently put forth.
If someone understands the gospel, then he understands that leadership involves loving sacrifice, not authoritarian rule. And it is my view that Doug Wilson is … Read more ». Sorry, Wilson does not dictate who lives where. And, kudos to Gary for standing by his daughter. You can laugh at me all you want. I suspect the same will be the case here.
Apparently the concept of church discipline is new to you. I lack sufficient information to know if the possibility of church discipline was appropriate in this case as does everyone here but it is an historic and biblical practice of the church and in no way is a marker for telling you whom you have to let live in your house. Apparently you did … Read more ». Whatever happened to actual reality? Wilson signed the letter on behalf of the elders.
It says so right on there. It looks like it was a group effort, not the pronouncement of a solitary dictator. Nobody has presented any evidece that anyone has ever been threatened or would be threatened with discipline for not hosting students.
So why would you insinuate it? Mirele: Not meaning to further offend, but your argument s will be more effective without the use of hyperbole in this situation. Everything in this comment is hearsay. I agree with you in principle I would not want an unrelated male living in my house if I had daughters. Still, If you keep up with the news you must be aware of the high number of women who rape adolescent boys.
Taking in female boarders is no less risky. The home owner has full control over who boards in his house. We are talking adults, here. Too many things went unsaid, and to unintentionally insinuatesomething would only be hurtful and destructive. And 2 I want Douglas Wilson to repent and change his ways to where he is supportive of the victims of abuse. Wilson guilty.
You are acting as judge. You are acting as jury. Wilson must now apologize and repent. You are acting as the executioner.
Taking the word of the side you prefer is not the same thing as knowing something. Greenfield may … Read more ». What information might Natalie not want dragged through the mud a decade later? The fact that the result of having a seminary student board with them cost Natalie her innocence, and her parents their marriage.
You could come up with a bunch of scenarios of private sins of the dad that end up with him looking pretty bad and not just as mere duped victim. And DW would have no right to talk about them openly. But GG may have recanted. Yes you are. The good thing is that you are in bad company with the group who investigates, tries and judges from afar with only a small bit of knowledge in the situation.
I am sure that a little internet bird told you and the others everything that you needed to know to be sufficiently outraged. Any person who shall commit any lewd or lascivious act or acts upon or with the body or any part or member thereof of a minor child under the age of sixteen 16 years, including but not limited to, genital-genital contact, oral-genital contact, anal-genital contact, oral-anal contact, manual-anal contact, or manual-genital contact, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or who shall involve such minor child in any act of bestiality or sado-masochism as defined in section , Idaho Code, when any of such acts are done with the intent … Read more ».
Pastor Wilson, I admire your presentation of the gospel, which is as lovely as anything I have ever read. And I weep for all those involved—the abusers, the abused, and for you. I stand with you, which therefore means that I also stand with the abusers and the abused, because you are standing with them as well. I am amazed by your courage, which is not the same thing as stubbornness or recalcitrance, though about six people here loudly proclaim it to be.
I sit aghast at the vehemence and unfiltered hatred poured out on you, when those so self-consciously … Read more ». On many things, I am not a Doug Wilson fan. I am not a Federal Visionist. I follow Kinship Theology rather than Reformed Theology. I am a- rather than post-millennial. I am a biblical egalitarian rather than a patriarchal complementarian.
And my political views slant more to the libertarian. But on the current subject, I cannot find an ounce of wrong in what Doug has written. All the accusations in these comments are supported only by presupposition, conjecture, speculation, and a special dislike of some … Read more ». That purpose is foundational motivating everything God does. It takes thought and doctrine to subtle differences that, I believe, satisfy certain disturbing elements of Reformed thought as well as Lutheran thought for that matter.
It is a covenant-based theology, but for example, rather than understanding a Covenant of Works to kick things off, that covenant would be … Read more ». Steal away for a sec — is there a group or sect or church that one might find on the landscape that devotes itself to this for me, attractive way of thinking?
Where might we get more acquainted with this outlook? Although the concepts of Kinship Theology are not new we find the ideas scattered even among the church fathers — esp. Cappadocians , pulling these concepts together in a more organized system is fairly recent. Go to truthwhys.
On the sidebar there is a label of Kinship Theology. This holds the beginnings of a book for which only two chapters are currently on the website about a chapter per month is being added. But if you peruse our Bible study Summaries—esp. John, Isaiah, … Read more ».
Once again, you are white washing. Sitler himself has admitted that there are more victims in multiple states. Sitler may very well go to Heaven. I am not called to EVER be judge of that. However, I do have respect for our civil authorities, and it is they themselves who opposed the marriage to begin with … Read more ». Pardon me if I missed an earlier comment. Are you referring to the death penalty or sterilization? I am absolutely not referring to the death penalty OR for sterilization. I am calling for him to have not entered into the marriage that the DOC so adimately protested.
Since that counsel from the law was not headed, I am calling for the counsel of Judge Stegner to not allow him to reside under the same roof with a child that he fathers be followed. Several years ago this is what law enforcement wanted for Steve Sitler no marriage and no residing with children, even his own. I agree that this should have been followed, and should still be … Read more ».
Hence my confusion. I think that any woman that sexually molests a child should never marry as well. Many women who have abortions are pressured into doing so. Are child molesters pressured into touching children? Child molesters who have been incarcerated undergo many evaluations. Some reported to be high risk of re-offending. I would like to see a study done regarding women who have had abortions.
How often are they pressured into doing so? Is the pressure coming from a man or a woman? Is the father … Read more ». There are some differences to be sure. And I have no problem with men who are complicit in abortions bearing some of the guilt. My point is that quite a lot of abortions are repeat abortions. Not a small number of women have a second or a third. So any woman who has had an abortion is risking the life of her future babies.
People are saying that even a repentant paedophile presents some risk; though not all re-offend. Yet the should-never-marry-ever group say that no risk, however small, is worth taking.
That same logic says that no risk, however … Read more ». Doug, Since I cannot find an email address for you, I am going to use this medium to make an offer. If you believe that the post I wrote is filled with errors, I would be happy to post a response by you in outlining the specific errors in the TWW post. Is God evil because Sitler sinned? After all, He has the authority and the power to stop him.
It sounds like there are several commenters angry not just at Wilson but also at God. Why do you not take your own advice and tend your wounds with grace instead of shouting it on social media?
Ironic indeed. The Sitler situation has been in the Moscow newspaper. People need answers. If Wilson did not say anything about the situation, then you would scream to high heaven that he was hiding things. I said that people are wanting and needing answers. More and more questions that needed answering kept coming to light. That is quite apparent if you have eyes to see. Why does he need to answer to any of these people? Doug is a representative of Christ and the message of the Gospel.
How he handles this current situation will either adorn or detract from his responsibility to be a proper representative. I think he has already shown he is not a proper representative with each new blog. But, I guess this is exactly what he wants. And I regret giving it to him. Clara Hinton was married to such a man. I am posting this so your readership will have a better idea how to spot the wolves who are just that: unrepentant wolves. Thank you, Doug, for the moving and grand vision of the gospel you laid out here.
Blessings to you, Brother. He pled to those charges—and we can list all of his other offenses which would shut your party down indeed.
Ok, so people used rape instead of using infant for self gratification…. You should own this dOUG…. Paul apologized for mistakes he made, and said he would suffer any consequences he was worthy of punishment for. Shrill demands for apologies which, if forthcoming, are used as evidence that the person should be destroyed are a very common tactic in public flame wars.
I am not his counselor or confidant. If any of you were standing before a judge, having been accused of a crime, how would you like it if the judge only listened to the prosecution before passing sentence? If you would not like that, then do unto others what you would have others do unto you. Thank you for using your gifts to teach the Word so clearly and consistently. This is extraordinarily helpful. Anyone care to wager on when pedophilia will become an accepted good? Can all accusers and supporters on this blog send up a prayer for Doug and Natalie?
They are speaking of meeting and talking, which could lead to peace and understanding. If reconciliation happens, then we will all have to get back to our own, not so public problems, some of us have much of our own work to … Read more ».
May the Holy Spirit, who holds her soul, bathe her in the perfect truth, goodness, and beauty that comes only from you. May every attempt of Satan to defeat her in mind and heart fall failing to the floor. May she rise with the wings of eagles.
May she never, never faint. Bring those who love you to surround her and love her as only those with knowledge and life abundance in you can. May she, as others have, be able to live free from the trauma of soul by trusting … Read more ». And if a molestation or rape provides an opportunity for grace to be displayed, so be it. God is sovereign, and if God chooses for a baby to experience molestation that the gospel can be preached, who are we to consider it anything other than beautiful. Jael, what an astute observation about there being two voices speaking different languages.
Our emphasis on the gospel and grace is because we know that only a scandalous gospel i. Serial molesters can absolutely be forgiven, as can any other kind of sinner, habitual or otherwise.
While I also believe in a scandalous gospel and agree that it is about all people, I also believe we must take care to live a life worthy of the calling we have received.
Right now and … Read more ». Maybe they are seeing a secular government who releases sexual offenders back into the public square? Sitler is a human who merits divine compassion as well as divine justice. In the meantime, he should not be around … Read more ».
I do not know whether others disagreed. It is hypocritical that many persons who would be angry at Wilson for not … Read more ». Only that in addition to being forgiven by Christ, 1 Sitler should not have had access to harm children, 2 Sitler should not have continued access to harm children, and 3 we should consider how church leadership can prevent and actively combat these situations with humility, which it does not … Read more ». Only these three?
There has been much worse, here and elsewhere. Is God only interested in the victims? This is not the God of the Christian Bible who claims dominion over all, abusers and victims alike. The answers to these questions would expose their real objections to Wilson, and in some cases show why nothing short of denying the Gospel would satisfy … Read more ». Truth, like a diamond, shines most fair, More rich than pearls and rubies are— More worth than gold and silver coin, O!
They have a freedom then indeed, That doth all freedom else exceed— Freedom from … Read more ». It is strange to see such rampant inconsistency on this subject, particularly in Christian circles. How can we, who have been forgiven so much, not find in ourselves a desperation to give hope of a new identity to those who sit in darkness and dwell in the shadow of death. Doug, thanks for these posts. They are very helpful insight into a difficult situation.
Wilson, for the sake of the child — the real victim in this case — please listen to those who have been admonishing you for your dereliction of duty as a pastor. You are on to something here, Mr. Go on…. But until you listen to those whom the Lord is using to speak to you, your only posture can be that of self-defense.
Lay down your defenses, and you actually might profit from the voice of wisdom. Wow, another blogger out of the blue in the western sky. Nonna, do you know any of the players personally or have inside knowledge of this situation? And are you as angry and in such hot pursuit of the civil authority that actually released the man? Suspects can be convicted on whimsical testimony and then must be burned.
But pedophiles are real! Many within that so-called witch-hunting mob over this last week had claimed that they had been similarly abused. Hi Antecho, I am having trouble understanding you. Are you suggesting that because the child has responded to grooming or to coercion, he or she is complicit in the sin?
Do you see rape as essentially fornication as opposed to a grievous physical assault? You say that the people disclosing sexual abuse here are part of an … Read more ». You are over-reading this. The text presupposed crying out as per the countryside. She is executed as an adulteress as is he. It is over-reading over-interpreting the text to extend it to saying that she should still yell out, even if he holds a knife to her neck.
What if they are in the city but the city has been abandoned because of a famine. Logic would dictate this is similar to being in the countryside. So your empty city exception is not arbitrary, but based on Scripture. Hand-waving something as over-interpreted … Read more ».
The woman is also obligated by the sixth commandment to preserve her own life. Weighing that against denying Christ, preserving her life is less important. Weighing that against being raped, preserving her life may be more important. So if someone demands that a woman must not resist her own involvement in extra covenantal sex to save herself from being murdered, then the woman to be murdered is or even could be guilty of her own murder if she refuses?
I was thinking of the WLC on the sixth commandment. What are the duties required in the sixth commandment? The duties required in the sixth commandment are all careful studies, and lawful endeavors, to preserve the life of ourselves[] and others[] by resisting all thoughts and purposes,[] subduing all passions,[] and avoiding all occasions,[] temptations,[] and practices, which tend to the unjust taking away the life of any;[] by just defence thereof against violence,[] patient bearing of the hand of God,[] quietness of mind,[] … Read more ».
She did do something, she did decide not to cry out so as to attempt to stop the … Read more ». Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness.
These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! Where is the command to cry out? It is assumed because that is what people do; ie. The Jews made the same mistake in assuming that a man divorces is wife because… therefore he has a legitimate reason to divorce.
But Jesus said that it was because their hearts were hard. The command acknowledged divorce but was there to prevent a woman returning to her husband, not to teach that he was allowed to divorce note that they are wrong because they … Read more ». Therefore she ought to cry out in the city, she has a moral obligation to do this. Therefore, the command, although not an express command, is implied since she is condemned for not doing so as a moral obligation.
If people were to be put to death or condemned for not divorcing, then divorce would be a relevant analogy. I can see we will not get much further. Though I suggest you look at the divorce passage I mentioned Deu For the record, I WAS actually abused when I was eight or nine years old by a teenage boy in my neighborhood.
I know the name of the abuser, but the statute of limitations has passed. My uncle had a similar vehicle and I knew the engine was in the back. This is disgusting talk.
Because many of these comments are emotionally charged and based on supposition and conjecture, some of us might be served well to examine the actual facts. He recognizes the difficulty for everyone involved in the case, and simply wants to ensure that the child is protected and not at risk. There is … Read more ». Jael, this is true, but I think in addition what would be appreciated is that Doug Wilson own up to his irresponsibility in this matter — namely, that he officiated at the wedding of Steven Sitler and Katie, knowing that a child would very likely be born out of this union.
Hence, where the matter stands today because there is an actual child whose safety is at risk. I agree completely with regard to accountability for Doug Wilson. I think the response to Sitler has been very measured and appropriate.
Was Wilson supposed to lock him in the church basement? Would you all be supporting that if he did? What power do you think Wilson has that he did not exercise? Doug Wilson knew this but proceeded to conduct the marriage ceremony. This means that either a Wilson intended for them to live apart once they had a child, which would be a violation of the Biblical principles he preaches, or b Wilson intended to disregard the recommendation of the courts, planning to defy civil authority.
Or perhaps … Read more ». Bottom line, the civil authority is the only entity that could have stopped Sitler from fathering a child being in authority over a child. Yet you turn your bile on Wilson. Stitler was to get married and have children as he has stated are his intentions, the Idaho Department of Correction will face the future decision to have to separate Mr. Thank you for that. I still am not getting the blame of Mr.
Wilson that is going on then perhaps not from you? Perhaps I am just being dense entirely possible. So the legal system released Sitler, apparently with much hemming and hawing thank you for reproducing much of that hemming and hawing here , yet, they still did it.
Jael gives the dilemma which is irrelevant to the present circumstances that consists of specified options that: 1 Wilson intended the marriage to be a violation of Biblical principles or 2 to defy civil authority. Sitler from living with his child so long as there is line of sight observance of a trained chaperone while Mr. Sitler interacts with his child. But after reading all of the five posts defending yourself, I would have to agree that your love for them does in fact seem incidental to me.
It is certainly not the main issue that you have chosen to address. And I concur with the scriptures that say that a man speaks out of the abundance of his … Read more ».
There are some really weird statements in this post. Did your two sessions agree together at some point … Read more ». Far too broad a brush. Or just say that we are all like Steven Sitler? Pastor Wilson. For how can a pastor entrusted with leading the flock in the righteousness of the Word suggest that murder is acceptable to Him.
The murder of one who should be ministered to as you ministered to Steven Sitler? Can you … Read more ». For Katie to choose between Sitler and her son. Run, Katie, run! And if you … Read more ». He told the future president that a bigger boy had been pinching his sister, and so he fought him. Roosevelt told him that he had done perfectly right and gave him a dollar. The stodgy vestrymen thought this was a bit much, and so they let their exuberant Sunday school teacher go.
What a loss. Unbelief cannot look past surfaces. Unbelief squashes, but faith teaches. Faith takes a boy aside and tells him that this part of what he did was good, while that other part of what he did got in the way.
As we look to Scripture for patterns of masculinity for our sons, we find them manifested perfectly in the life of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the one who set the ultimate pattern for friendship, for courage, for faithfulness, and integrity. Most Christians view the book of Ecclesiastes as an enigma, a puzzle from which we might draw a few aphorisms but little else. We may be baffled by all this, but God is the foundation of all reason and order, and the problem does not perplex him.
But a man attempting to determine what the everlasting God may or may not do in history as he inhabits eternity is like a June bug trying to do quantum physics.
If God were to come down and explain, as Job wanted him to, none of us could follow his arguments. How does life in each room of your home manifest the Gospel?
The Word became flesh and bone, and the Gospel becomes our porch, dining room, bedroom, and kitchen. This book works its way through every part of the house, examining each part in light of Scripture.
The claims of God are always total , and this is evident on the doorposts and in a sink full of dishes. Self-centeredness destroys in monotonously similar ways. Giving up life for another produces a harvest of kindness and mercy. Satire is a kind of preaching.
Satire pervades Scripture. Satire treats the foibles of sinners with a less than perfect tenderness. But if a Christian employs satire today, he is almost immediately called to account for his unbiblical behavior. Yet Scripture shows that the central point of some religious controversies is to give offense. When Christ was confronted with ecclesiastical obstinacy and other forms of arrogance, he showed us a godly pattern for giving offense. In every controversy, godliness and wisdom or the lack of them are to be determined by careful appeal to the Scriptures and not to the fact of people having taken offense.
Perhaps they ought to have taken offense, and perhaps someone ought to have endeavored to give it. Suppose a husband is committing adultery. Is he still a husband? Being a husband is a public relationship made from a public exchange of vows, and objective covenant. An adulterous husband is a covenant- breaking husband but still a husband. Being a husband is what makes his infidelity so horrendous.
In the same way, when people are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are ushered into an objective, visible, covenant relationship. Regardless of the state of their heart, regardless of any hypocrisy, regardless of whether or not they mean it, such people are now visible saints, Christians.
Membership in the Christian faith is objective—it can be photographed and fingerprinted. In baptism, God names us and imposes gracious obligations upon us. Multitudes of faithless, corrupt Christians show that they do not believe what God said at their baptism. They live like adulterous husbands. But the tragedy is that many conscientious conservative Christians also do not believe what God said at their baptism.
How would you describe the spiritual aroma of your home? The source of this aroma is the relationship between husband and wife. The following sermons are included in this set: 1. Matthew 2. Mark 3. Luke 4. John 5. Why not browse some new books? Join the Canon Press Newsletter.
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